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Общий раздел / IRC #oberon channel logs
« : Январь 19, 2013, 01:29:42 am »
Как все начиналось см. тут: http://oberspace.dyndns.org/index.php/topic,436.0.html
А пока логи никто не выкладывает, выложу я их здесь:
А пока логи никто не выкладывает, выложу я их здесь:
Цитировать
-Zorko- VERSION mIRC v6.02 Khaled Mardam-Bey
<tangentstorm> the ngaro instruction set is almost the same as the one from wirth's machine... except his uses registers, whereas ngaro uses the dual stack architecture
>dsar< CTCP VERSION
-dsar- VERSION HexChat 2.9.4 [x64] / Windows 7 [3.00GHz]
>harrison< CTCP VERSION
-harrison- VERSION Quassel IRC v0.6.3 (dist-de4dd62) (built on Oct 19 2011 21:33:07) -- http://www.quassel-irc.org
>impomatic< CTCP VERSION
-impomatic- VERSION Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) Presto/2.12.388 Version/12.12
>lboasso< CTCP VERSION
-lboasso- VERSION ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0/20130104151925]
>norayr< CTCP VERSION
* [norayr] is away (https://spyurk.am/u/norayr)
-norayr- VERSION Purple IRC
<dsar> :O
>StephenS< CTCP VERSION
-StephenS- VERSION XChat-WDK 1500 [x86] / Windows 7 [2,71GHz]
>tangentstorm< CTCP VERSION
-tangentstorm- VERSION WeeChat 0.3.2 (Jun 18 2010)
>valexey< CTCP VERSION
* Received a CTCP VERSION from valexey
-valexey- VERSION xchat 2.8.8 Linux 2.6.32-5-686 [i686/800.50MHz/SMP]
* norayr has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
<tangentstorm> hey there valexey
<tangentstorm> if i'm not mistaken, someone was just showing us a compiler you'd written...
<tangentstorm> https://github.com/valexey/Oberon-07-11-compiler
<valexey> It'is not my compiler. please read "read me"
<valexey> i just push it to github + some minor bugfix
<tangentstorm> Aha. Well, thanks for doing so.
<valexey> :-)
<tangentstorm> In any case, it's inspired me to get my own oberon compiler work up onto github. Working on that right now.
<valexey> Very well
* valexey waiting for link/url :-)
<tangentstorm> it'll be an hour or so... i'm writing a readme and i have to extract it from another codebase
<valexey> ok
<dsar> I'm also coding an oberon compiler (but only a frontend, I still have to learn how to write a code generator)
<dsar> but I'm going to split the parser in several modules, for every ast generator
<valexey> there is another one compiler under development. compiler to js-code. New market for Oberon :-)
<dsar> we could join in an unique project
<dsar> here there are at least 4 people making a compiler, ehehe
* Vapaamies (~Freeman@188.242.131.141) has joined #oberon
<valexey> :-)
<valexey> Oberon-07?
<dsar> yup
<valexey> what charset for string literals?
* Vapaamies (~Freeman@188.242.131.141) has left #oberon ("Black Mesa Research Center")
<dsar> Latin-1
<valexey>
<dsar> why?
<valexey> because in modern world de facto standard is unicode (utf8 for example)
<dsar> utf8 is a pain to support (the standard reference is about 600 pages :\)
<dsar> in my opinion it is better to leave this on the library side
<valexey> I think that for compiler implementation we need only information from wikipedia about utf8/unicode :-)
<dsar> in multilanguage programs, strings are read from a specific file
<valexey> ok. what size of char?
<dsar> 1 byte
<valexey> from Oberon-07/11 report size of char is unspecified.
<valexey> so, we get incompatibility between different Oberon-07 compilers.
<dsar> usually CHAR is 1 byte, UNICHAR 2 byte
<valexey> there is no unichar in Oberon-07 report :-)
<dsar> indeed
<valexey> and even 2 byte - it is only UCS-2. Full unicode is UTF-32 or UCS-4 (4 byte)
<dsar> by the way I'm an oberon puristI would had every extension (like exceptions through coroutines) via SYSTEM module
<dsar> UTF-8 via normal library
<dsar> I would add*
<valexey> sixe of char is unspecified, size of integer unspecified, so how to implement cross-compiler library for any size of char? ;-)
<dsar> there are a lot of unspecified and unclear parts in the report
<valexey> yep
<dsar> indeed there was a deep discussion about open array semantic in ocp.forum
<valexey> url?
<dsar> if one is going to write an oberon compiler, should expand the report with more rules
* tcpip (ada418c1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.164.24.193) has joined #oberon
<tcpip> hi
<valexey> hi
<tcpip> not so many ppl is here
<tcpip> r u from russia?
<dsar> three days ago there were only two people (me and tangentstorm), ehehehe
<tcpip> hi dsar
<dsar> hola tcpip :-)
<valexey> tcpip, i'm from russia
>tcpip< CTCP VERSION
-tcpip- VERSION qwebirc v0.91, copyright (C) 2008-2011 Chris Porter and the qwebirc project -- Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_8_2) AppleWebKit/537.17 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/24.0.1312.52 Safari/537.17
<tcpip> brb
<valexey> also there is russian jabber oberon conference: oberon@conference.jabber.ru
<tangentstorm> why is oberon so popular in russia? is there some person/company that popularized it? or did it just kind of happen?
<dsar> I heard that modula-2 were used a lot in russia
<dsar> was
<dsar> for this reason, maybe, there are a lot of interested people in oberon
<valexey> some satellite firmware written in modula-2 (today)
<valexey> also there is XDS-compiler
<valexey> also BlackBox useful in some science/engineeric application
<valexey> messages per year on russian oberon forums: http://oberspace.dyndns.org/stats/stats_total.png
<valexey> http://oberspace.dyndns.org/stats/oberon_total.png
<dsar> :O
<valexey> more than 12000 messages last year :-)
<valexey> (not all messages was oberon-specific, but all written by russian oberon community )
<tcpip> looks like in Russia something start recovering finally
<valexey> yep :-)
<tcpip> glad to see it
<dsar> so russians are oberon lovers
<tcpip> if I remember M2 was the implementation language in some Russian space programs, e.g. Buran. Is it correct?
<valexey> I don't know about buran software, but yes, today some russian space satellite has firmware written on M2
<tcpip> also it was one of the language for Elbrus, monster parallel supercomputer system. Am I right?
<valexey> what Elbrus model? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbrus_(computer)
<dsar> if you are sure about that, modify the page on the wikipedia :-)
<valexey> Yes, as I see, for Elbrus-1 and Elbrus-2 thare was Эль-76 language, Modula-2, Ada, Refal, Forth, Snobol and others.
<valexey> proof link (russian language): http://sevntu.com.ua/cgi-bin/irbis64r_72/cgiirbis_64.exe?Z21ID=&I21DBN=BOOK&P21DBN=BOOK&S21STN=1&S21REF=5&S21FMT=fullwebr&C21COM=S&S21CNR=20&S21P01=0&S21P02=0&S21LOG=1&S21P03=K=&S21STR=%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B0%20%D0%9C%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%83%D0%BB%D0%B0-2-%D0%AD%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B1%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81
<dsar> well, I trust you :-) ehehe
<tcpip> llong time ago in the collage where I was working Russian was the "must know" language for mathematicians
<tcpip> I was able to read papers and even new few spoken "special" words
<valexey> where it was?
<tcpip> in UNH
<valexey> University of New Hampshire?
<tcpip> yeap
<tcpip> then, later on, we had few professors from Russia and Ukraine
<tcpip> one maybe still working
<tcpip> he is not a programmer, just math
<valexey> I understand..
<tcpip> now nobody reads russian science magazines, if they still in place
<tcpip> all gone...
<valexey> Most publications in international magazines.
<tcpip> are you from Moscow?
<valexey> No, I'm from Nizhny Novgorod (it was known as Gorky).
<tcpip> no.
<tcpip> you had a great country in the past
<tcpip> I had a present from those folks with letters CCCP on it
<tcpip> If not your Sputnik I never had a doctor degree.
<valexey> :-)
<valexey> Everyone has ups and downs. Our country too.
<tcpip> The guy who really invent internet, not Al Gore, did it because your country
<tcpip> few years ago was his article in IEEE about it
<valexey> because nuclear weapon?
<valexey> My hometown is Arzamas-16 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarov ) :-)
<tcpip> no. he said he decide to choose engineering cuz USSSR launch a sputnik
<tcpip> ... let me search for that article on Google
<valexey> ok
<tangentstorm> https://github.com/nickelsworth/noctREADME could probably use some work and I need to rebuild and upload the makefile, but it's a start.
<tcpip> http://www.computer.org/portal/web/internet/extras/Len-Kleinrock
<valexey> tangentstorm, wow! :-)
<valexey> tangentstorm, i must write about it to our forum :-)
<tcpip> I have a digital subscription for IEEE with full article
<valexey> tcpip, thanks
<tcpip> this link just pops up first
<tangentstorm>
<Zorko> valexey, from where you know about this channel, a little spion?
<Zorko> welcome
<valexey> from here : https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/pipermail/oberon/2013/006689.html
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<Zorko> aha
<Zorko> mm.. and why akron1 not placed his compiler to github and ask you about it?
<valexey> because he don't know hot to do it
<valexey> *how
<Zorko> aaah. ok, I understand
<Zorko> interesting work
<Zorko> I would like to give him idea to add LLVM or C code generator
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<valexey> tangentstorm, wow, your using antlr! That's great :-) I like it :-)
<Zorko> and maybe native x86-32 may be easy modified to x86-64 code generator...
<tangentstorm> thanks
<Zorko> valexey, I'm Oleg N. Cher
<valexey> Zorko, I know
<Zorko> very satisfied with your forum
<Zorko> but it needs a many of time
<tangentstorm> i figured java made the most sense as a target since it already has inheritence, garbage collection, and modules (static classes)
<valexey> tangentstorm, are you use antlr workbench?
<Zorko> no time to Oberon coding
<valexey> Zorko, scheduling problem :-)
<Zorko> nono
<Zorko> it's a Dizzer problem - he do nothing
<valexey> Zorko, just ignore him
<tangentstorm> c and pascal are trickier because you have to implement garbage collection yourself, and of course pascal has the case sensitivity issue. there's a language called "D" though that might make sense as a target
<Zorko> it's not always easy - to re-calibrate mind between the tasks
<valexey> tangentstorm, and Go language
<Zorko> valexey, I can, of course
<tangentstorm> valexey: good point.
<Zorko> but why
<valexey> tangentstorm, and javascript :-)
<tangentstorm> go is actually a great choice. there's a version of the virtual machine written in go already, and it also runs natively on google app engine (which i do some work with)
<Zorko> dsar, have an idea - publish the channel logs on web
<tangentstorm> valexey: https://github.com/tangentstorm/ngaro-js
<Zorko> to be indexed by Google, to Oberoners find it by keywords
<Zorko> well guys, I go to sleep
<valexey> Zorko, try it
<valexey> and bye ;-)
<tangentstorm> seeya Zorko
<Zorko> try with Dizzer? and why he is there, he is not Oberoner
<Zorko> yes, thanks all
<valexey> try to publish this log.
<valexey> I think we need irc-bot for it
<Zorko> eh. I'm not a bot, my connect may be dropped
<Zorko> aha
<Zorko> well..
<tangentstorm> I have logs, with a few gaps... i've got some friends who do bot stuff
<tangentstorm> we'll get one hooked up
* Zorko is now known as Zorko_sleep
<valexey> good
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<valexey> tangentstorm, now there are several Oberon-07/11 compilers, I think that we need common test-set (set of oberon-sources) for all compilers.
<tangentstorm> makes sense to me
<tangentstorm> there's already one for oberon2 on sourceforge somewhere. maybe we could adapt that?
* tangentstorm is now known as tangentaway
<valexey> oo2c tests? I don't know. May be it is easy to make new from scratch. Oberon-07 have many small (and not small) diffs.
